This Devoted Life

35. SD Smith: Stories That Shape Our Children/Advocate vs Accuser/New Book!

• James and Shanda

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"All of life is a battle against fear. We fight it on one front and it sneaks around to our flank." These powerful words from SD Smith's Green Ember series perfectly capture the heart of our conversation with the beloved author whose rabbit-centric adventure stories have sold over a million copies and captivated families worldwide.

Sam Smith joins us to share how what began as bedtime stories for his four children transformed into a literary phenomenon that helps shape children into "children of light, piercing the darkness around them." With disarming humility, Sam reveals that despite his publishing success, he believes his greatest creative achievement will always be his family. "I'll never make anything that will have more of an impact in the world than the four human beings that Jane and I are raising," he reflects, challenging the notion that family obligations hinder creative work.

As we explore the landscape of children's literature, Sam articulates why modern stories often fall short – they place children at the universe's center rather than helping them find their place within something greater. Drawing from influences like C.S. Lewis and Tolkien, he explains how truly great stories offer moral clarity without sacrificing complexity, allowing young readers to witness both the consequences of bad choices and the beauty of repentance. "I want to introduce the romance, the adventure of goodness," Sam shares, revealing his mission to show children that truth isn't a cage but a key to freedom.

Perhaps most compelling is Sam's distinction between being an advocate versus an accuser – choosing to create and champion good things rather than merely criticizing what's wrong. This philosophy extends to his newest venture: a video game companion to his upcoming book "Helmer and the Dragon Tomb," designed without the predatory features that plague modern gaming. It's a bold move into new territory, but one that remains faithful to his mission of serving families through wholesome, imagination-kindling media.

Ready to discover stories that will shape your children's moral imagination? Visit sdsmith.com to explore the Green Ember series and support Sam's groundbreaking book and game project on Kickstarter today!

Links:
Green Ember Book

Connect with SD Smith:
Website: SDSmith
Hemler in the Dragon Tomb: Kickstarter Campaign

Let's connect!
Website: This Devoted Life
Instagram: Devoted Motherhood & This Devoted Life Podcast
Email: podcast@thisdevotedlife.com

James:

What started as a Saturday morning coffee date turned into a podcast where we chat about things like faith, family finances and so much more.

Shanda:

In a world that is encouraging you to live your truth and to follow your heart. We want to encourage you to live devoted to the truth.

James:

The Bible has a lot to say about how to live a victorious Christian life, and we want to share practical insight in how to apply those truths to your life, as we endeavor to apply them to our own lives as well.

Shanda:

If you enjoy this podcast, please leave us a review and share these episodes with your friends so that you can help them live this devoted life too. Welcome to another episode of this Devoted Life podcast. We are so excited because we have Sam Smith on the podcast today, though you may better know him as SD Smith, the writer of the Green Ember series. So what started as stories he told his four children when they were little turned into a beloved children's series that inspired children and adults with soul-shaping, memory-making and darkness-shaking adventures. With over a million copies sold, this series of stories are packed with virtue and imagination that help shape children into children of light, piercing the darkness around them. He is always working on his next adventure and we'll be talking about a Kickstarter campaign that he has going right now, which is his future project, but I'm sure he would tell you one of his greatest and best adventures has been marrying his wife and raising his two boys and two girls. So we want to say welcome to Sam.

SD Smith:

Hi, well, hello. I was so excited about that jump in sales that we actually just placed a 3 million copy order. So instead of the 10 minutes I promised. Let's go ahead and do the full 30.

Shanda:

I mean thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. Can you just kind of tell our listeners a little bit more about yourself, maybe some of your hobbies, things you enjoy and who you are?

SD Smith:

Sure, thank you so much. I'm so happy to be with you guys. My name is Sam and I'm married to Gina, and we have four kids. We live in Southern West Virginia, a rural part of West Virginia, which is to say, a part of West Virginia, and we love our community and we're involved with our church and our community in a strong way, and I'm a missionary kid. So I moved from Huntington, west Virginia area, to Beckley, west Virginia area, via South Africa.

Shanda:

So that's kind of you know.

SD Smith:

I've got a sort of a usual room.

Shanda:

Yeah, how long were you in South Africa for?

SD Smith:

So kind of interesting. I was there basically my teenage years. I share this sometimes, but I was 12 when we left and I turned 13, my first birthday in South Africa. When I went there, nelson Mandela was in prison and I turned 13 the day he was released from prison in South Africa, and then when we left, he was the president of the country. So just an interesting, fascinating time to be, there 89. And so I was there sort of during the nineties.

SD Smith:

But yeah missionary kid and my dad's been in ministry and yeah, my, I love what you were saying. Just the family has been the big adventure and I'd love to talk about that some. But I just keep thinking about how so many people understandably view kids and family domestic obligations as sort of an obstacle to and a lot of creative people are like oh, if I didn't have to do the laundry, then I could write the great American novel or whatever. Actually sympathize with that?

Shanda:

I know that there's a real struggle there for for um, but that's been.

SD Smith:

That has not been the obstacle for me. That's been the way.

James:

Yeah, the, the thing, that little ryan holiday.

SD Smith:

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah and I and I don't know if it was he did he come up with? I thought that was an older kind of a thing.

James:

Yeah, it's, it's much, much older, but he did write a book that's called the obstacle is the way, so I just thought I'd throw that in there. I'm not giving any credit.

SD Smith:

Do more credit Right, right yeah I honestly love what you're saying.

James:

Yeah, it's very true.

SD Smith:

And so, yeah, that whole family and even apart from sort of like, oh, that meant that I was successful because the story that I told led to it, that has happened, that has happened that's part of the story, but I actually think that the things that we long for as artists, as human beings.

SD Smith:

You know, we want sort of to have a long-lasting impact, we want to have connections, we want what we, what we put our energy into, to matter in significant ways. And like that's what you get at home, like that's what you get pour into kids, into your family, like that. And I don't, I don't, I'm pretty convinced, I'm not sure I'll ever make anything like create anything, write anything that will have a more of an impact in the world than the four human beings that Jane and I are raising. I just think that that's way more potent.

SD Smith:

I mean, that's going to. They're going to multiply, lord willing, and that'll be 200, 300 thousands of people soon, and so I'll have a chance to impact the world, all the people they touch, and I don't think any of my books, even the ones that sell you know a whole lot or reach a big thing, I just don't think any of them will have that impact.

Shanda:

So I just yeah, you're right.

SD Smith:

I loved your intro because I was like that is exactly, that's exactly my heart.

Shanda:

I think it's to the 10th generation is, and it talks about how that multiplying out is. Your family will become thousands and millions of people someday, and the seeds that you're planting for the kingdom right now are just going to continue to multiply, and so that really is. I mean, it's obviously your heart, and it's the heart of our ministry too, is just to help families build those futures or that heavenly kingdom you know help families build those futures, or that, that heavenly kingdom you know.

SD Smith:

Yeah, I believe that once I once gave a talk and the sort of the refrain and it was the kingdom of god is our aim and heart no the kingdom of god is our family's heart, the end and aim of all our art I was trying to think of something that was like meaningful, that we would catch in someone's mind. It was sort of like it was a creative conference. So I was trying to sort of say that message of like it's not.

SD Smith:

they're not the obstacle, they're not, they're not in the way they're here, this is this is your calling this is and it's all the things you long for as an artist. To you know, to there's so much of that there and I know it's mundane and part of the challenge is it's not fame.

Shanda:

So it doesn't get you.

SD Smith:

You know when you wipe the 5,000th diaper or you know, I guess, and wipe the bottom and, you know, clean the room, whatever. And it's so modest, it's so unseen, but that is. There's so much depth and rich. And, honestly, even if you're thinking about being a creative sort of a creative calling, like there is no, I don't know. There's no way to get to where you can share meaningful, good, generous work without suffering. I think if someone offers you the long cut or the shortcut, you take, take the long cut. The long cut is where you become the kind of person that can, that can serve people in a different way. So, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm for the family. I'm just coming out. I'm coming out now making a bold statement. I think the families are great.

Shanda:

No, I love that Absolutely.

Shanda:

I remember years ago a friend of mine and you being a missionary kid. She told me that she always felt like God was calling her to the mission field and she actually felt like once she got pregnant and had a baby that she wasn't able to fulfill that calling. And I remember looking at her and saying, well, you're fulfilling it right now, within your home, because God has given you your mission field literally within your home, right now, and I didn't realize how much of an impact that made on her until years later she was like you have no idea how much that changed the mindset that I had going into the day-to-day of just this is what God has called me to right now, in this season.

SD Smith:

And so I love that. She had 37 children and started in church and it was like, wow, we've got. No, I love it. That's a great way to build the kingdom. It's just I have more babies, yeah.

James:

Honestly, you can promote the things in your household, you know, in your children. You can promote them and obviously they're their own individuals. They're going to be the people they're going to be and, you know, while it's definitely through the gospel, it is also through the home and it's honestly the main reason why we even do this podcast. So that's kind of the heart of her ministry.

SD Smith:

That's powerful. Yeah, moms are. I mean. I love the, the kind of women I'm sure that are listening to this is they're like my wife, you know they're serious women who care and love the lord and and have challenges like everybody else, maybe too over anxious or fearful about this or worried about that, but they're trying, they're trying, they're like they're, they're, they're going for it and I love that. That. It's beautiful yeah.

Shanda:

Yeah, I know that you have said you know that your family is like your lasting legacy but obviously, like your books are going to leave an impact on other people, who are some authors that you would say made an impact on you as a kid. That has kind of shaped you into the person that you become.

SD Smith:

For sure, I mean massive, I that you become for sure. I mean massive. I mean reading is is magic, I mean it's, it's this miraculous thing that you can. I have been discipled by cs lewis and you know that's just isn't. That's so cool. I mean that's a technology. Again, thinking about sort of like you know, playing with uh in a technological world, which maybe we'll get on to, but like even yeah you know, even your son dawson doing like rc cars.

SD Smith:

That's like playing with the technology, but there's something really cool about it. It's like very connected to this and and the technology of the printing press. The technology of books has been so, you know, and there were people I was just reading thomas jefferson the other day who's writing about warning people about novels. Just like the novels so horrible, and you can kind of find that about a lot of things. You know, when the bicycle came out, just people absolutely flipped out, horrible, and maybe they were right, I don't know. Bicycle is really scary, but it's just the technology that I have the opportunity to read, that I can read CS Lewis, I can read George McDonnell. I can read George McDonnell, I can read GK Chesterton, I can read Jane Austen, and these people all have had a massive influence on me and there's some more spiritually, but actually I would say that there's never been a book that has impacted me more profoundly in a spiritual way than.

SD Smith:

The Lord of the Rings and I was not a big reader as a kid. I became a little bit laden into it. So I was in my teens before I was reading a lot. But that book is so profoundly good and actually you think about Lewis's experience himself that he found a book by he didn't even know it about. It was called Fantasties and he read this book. He was a devout atheist being discipled by an extremely devout atheist Right yeah.

SD Smith:

The great knock Kirkpatrick and he was, so he had no time for it and it was. It was something he was rejecting actively. But he read this book, fantasties, and he said that it had like the, the stench, the aroma of holiness, and he encountered that through fiction. And I would just say that that experience, I mean, and that's had unbelievably compounding, profound impact of goodness, goodness, when you think about what he went on to create.

SD Smith:

So this lineage going back so profound and so beautiful. And Tolkien, just I mean the Lord of the Rings. I love the Bible. I read the Bible more than anything. As a teenager read constantly, and what happened when I read the Lord of the Rings is that that helped me to love what the Bible put forth as beautiful. I saw it. It was like I could see it.

Shanda:

And it was not an allegory.

SD Smith:

It's not heavy handed, it's not sort of like. This means this it wasn't like trying to dominate me, it was an invitation. It was beautiful, good story. It was such profound and has been no-transcript so Tolkien, lewis for sure, which is like a cliche answer, but I don't care because it's so good.

James:

No, I mean, it's the truth, yeah.

SD Smith:

Brilliant and Chesterton as well, and I do love Jane Austen a whole lot and I would say Louisa Malkot and Alan Patton and PG Woodhouse, as far as just like enjoyment for reading that kind of thing. That's probably a little bit of the humor sort of side, but yeah, I could go on and on.

Shanda:

Well, I laughed when I saw that I think in a bio that you had online that you had Little Women written down as one of the books that you loved as a child and I did not read it until last year it was the first time I read it. And then we happened to be at a work conference and I realized that the Louisa May Alcott house was like 10 minutes away and I said we need to go and see. So we were able to go and just walk in her footsteps, like where she was writing, and just the fact that she used both her right and left hand to write so that she didn't have to stop writing, she could just swap hands when a hand got tired, and I was like that is so neat to actually see what inspired her and where she was sitting when she started to write that.

James:

And you could see the little girl come out and hurt so much. I mean, she was just like yes, it was amazing.

SD Smith:

I want to go to that. I would love to go. So that was an important one for me, because that's the first time I thought about being an author.

SD Smith:

I wasn't reading at the time, but I had a teacher who read that book to us in first grade and my mother read the Chronicle of Narnia. This teacher, miss Geiner, she read Little Women and I remember hearing about Jo being a writer and I remember thinking like, oh, you can sort of like, oh, you can do that, like that's really cool. And and then then hearing from her that that was sort of that. She was sort of a stand-in for louisa herself and I just I was just inspired and I thought, for some reason, I thought you know, authors were really far away, they were in england or there was something, and this was like oh this is a person with.

SD Smith:

There's a big family like yeah, yeah, she's an american and she's close and they're not wealthy and I just kind of thought, well, that's like my family. So it just got in my head like, oh, that's a really cool vocation. Maybe that's super cool.

Shanda:

Well, and I love that when a book is well written it's timeless. So as a kid I mean, I watched the movie and I definitely related with Joe when I was little, but reading it this time around I was like I was relating to Marmee now, and I just was like this is.

Shanda:

I want to have my motherhood reflect this a little bit, and there were little bits and pieces of it that I was able to take and I just was like this is such a good, deep, rich, beautiful writing, and I mean it can inspire all areas of your life 100% and I'd love to be.

SD Smith:

I wouldn't mind being like the dad in the book, but less excited about being like the real dad the book was being I'd want to do a little better job. I'm here. That's a whole other subject there.

James:

We all need to touch that one not to get too far into the weeds on what you just said, but, as you were saying, you relating to different characters you know, at different points in your life.

James:

I mean, it's so symbolic to life. You know, I think whether we're going to church literally anything that we're doing in the season of life, we can get different things out of it. I mean, look at the living word of God. You know in the Bible and as a child, hearing all of the, you know the biblical stories and things like that and how they talk to you. But then you know as an adult, there's so much deeper meaning there and I, just when you said it, for some reason my mind started thinking of all the different aspects in lenses in life that we use and we sometimes we just we need it at that moment and it can be so impactful.

Shanda:

So that's my little blurb. We're Charlotte Mason homeschoolers so we talk about a lot about like living books and I mean what we're talking about right now is that, I mean, obviously, the Bible is the ultimate living book, but there are ideas that reflect the truth that God has given us in his word, through story, and it really is very impactful.

SD Smith:

I totally resonate with that. I was talking to somebody yesterday about like it's funny how people give new Christians the book of John or someone that they're thinking about Like and I think that's cool. It's like it's a. It's amazing, though that's such a deeply profound, it's so philosophical, it's so poetic, it's so philosophical, it's so poetic, it's so beautiful. It's like oh, that's the thing you're introducing. It's really wild, but it's great too because you encounter.

SD Smith:

Jesus in it and you can just encounter Jesus with whatever baggage, whatever history you have, and it's so compelling you either want to reject him or worship him, but it is different. It's funny that 50 years later or 20 years later, you might read the same thing, having spent time in the Pentateuch.

Shanda:

And then you're reading John, it's a completely different.

SD Smith:

You're just oh my goodness, this is Genesis. Again and again it's just Genesis again and I love that and I think that's part of sort of a person who reads Genesis or all the Pentateuch and reads Ecclesiastes, the wisdom literature, and reads John. There's I mean, there's some, there's depth there.

James:

Oh, my goodness yeah.

SD Smith:

Profound. Profound. Same thing, same word, but the profundity of that is so powerful and it's so literary, it's so beautiful and literary, and so much for scripture is. There's so much music and songs. I love the phrase that history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes, and you just see the rhyming all through the gospel, just everywhere. But it's in life too. It's just that there is such a profound. I mean, lewis said that the intellect is the organ of truth and that the imagination is the organ of meaning, and I'm such an advocate for Christians recapturing a capacity for imagination. I think we're really impoverished when we strictly look at information and think that that's going to be, if I have the correct information. Why is the scripture so full of stories? Why are even the commands in scripture so rooted in narrative, so rooted in a story? I am the god who brought you out of egypt. That's the context for the ten commandments. Uh, you know, I am the, the. The christ is died, buried, raised, seen.

SD Smith:

That's the context for all the commands of the new testament so it's not so much about like, if you, if we just say like this, or, but take this information in ascent to this information mentally download this yeah, yeah, yeah.

SD Smith:

We're not brains on a stick, we're embodied human beings, and so what we do with our bodies matters and our imagination is such a profound capacity. That's part of my mission is I just want to enliven, I want to enrich the imagination of families and kids and I want it to be rooted in that capital R reality. That is the truth. The way I don't want to lie to children about the way God made the world.

SD Smith:

I feel like it's a big stewardship, but just the imagination is so profound and so powerful and I think you just see it in scripture. I just, I'm sorry, just James, when you just got me going, you think about alive. It's just so, and it's not that the information changes or something in it. But it's truth, but it is so, it's just. It hits you. It can hit you as a scholar, it can hit you as a poet, it can hit you as a child, maybe most you know best as a child according to the Lord you know, and so it's just yeah, it's awesome.

Shanda:

Yeah, it really is. So what are your take, or what is your take on modern children's literature then? Because I mean, there's a lot of books that have been put out in modern times and sometimes I kind of question, because it feels like the heroes of the story are no longer heroes and the villains are no longer villains. And it's what is your take on the modern children's literature that's coming out? And I don't equate your books to that.

James:

Yeah, no, I mean, that's literally kind of what you're saying that in his books the villain is the villain, and yeah, yeah.

Shanda:

So what's your take on that?

SD Smith:

I think that a lot of modern books are timely, they are rooted in a time and they are very much like about a topic or something and honestly, unfortunately, I think you get this sort of from. Well, I think there's a lot of been a reaction to all. These people are telling all these lies and um, pushing an agenda. So you know how we'll counter that.

SD Smith:

We'll do children's books that push the opposite agenda and we'll sort of like the kids kind of get lost in this as far as like what's what is good for a child and I do think there are some differences between a lot of the timeless classics, and it's a little bit of a bias, because the books that survive you know an Anne of Green Gables and Ivanhoe, a tale of two cities or whatever you know the count of Monte Cristo the reason we have them is because they were the, they were the best you know. And so there's been this filtering over time, which is a, which is a good safety or not safety, but like a good device. Lewis talked about that, about reading three old books for everyone.

SD Smith:

You read from this century, read from the old, let the fresh breeze of the centuries blow through your imagination, and I think that's really good wisdom. But I think part of the reason for that is because you don't know, I mean in our own culture. I think some of the challenges about it is a lot of the children's literature is this sort of whole universe spiraling into me as an. I am the center, and so what I just say about myself, how I define myself, it's like it's this very centered, and I think the best literature makes a child feel small in a good way, as in I'm a part of something. I'm small in this big universe and that's like a really sweet thing and actually it's a cool cause for peril. You know why you see, most children's books end up with like the parents get disconnected at some point and that's. I don't think that's always like a well, we're trying to divide it. Sometimes it's just like that's that makes you scared it makes for action and peril.

SD Smith:

I see it in Narnia and you certainly see it in Lord of the Rings.

SD Smith:

The hobbits are basically children. So the best books I think are timeless and they have timeless values and they have a sort of a humility in regards to the universe and to God and the sort of meaning behind you know kind of goes out. It's not, it doesn't go spiraling in. It locates a person in this more humble way and I think that's why so much of old literature is more refreshing. I think it's more rooted in reality. Often, and honestly, a lot of it is rooted in a Christian worldview and in a really profound way.

SD Smith:

Even the Dickens I do like, and I've totally resonated with what you're saying. A lot of modern stories are like the villains just misunderstood or they just needed a hug or that kind of thing, and I think that is pretty tedious and like overplayed. I do. I do think that you know, if you believe the gospel, then it's there is like a, there's a way back, and it's like that, there is a. In my own stories I like that. There's, there's clarity, as in sort of there there are types of animals or whatever that are just evil and that's, that's really simple, and they can be. There's just to be fought and opposed, yeah and but.

SD Smith:

But the rabbits aren't just good and so they are morally complex, so they can go along with the way of death or the way of life. So they they with the way of death or the way of life, so they're stand-ins for us. They're people really. So I like moral complexity as in that is the reality of the world. We can every day different moments and the idea that we're going to like oh, I see virtue and now I shall be virtuous. It's not as simple as that. We struggle with sin and we fail, and what we need is models of repentance and models of people choosing in suffering for maybe the way following the way of life.

SD Smith:

And so I think in my books I want there to be moral complexity. I want a bad character to be able to turn back. I want them to sometimes to just go on, choose the bad way and maybe they talk for a while, because I mean, read the Bible. It's like it happens for a long time and it's frustrating to some psalmists. And so I want there to be moral complexity. So I respect that, but I don't like the reduction of all stories to misunderstandings. I think that is a big problem with a lot of literature.

Shanda:

So I sympathize with your concerns there.

SD Smith:

For sure I like the moral clarity of the moral universe of a lot of literature, so I sympathize with your concerns there. For sure I like the moral clarity of the moral universe of a lot of classic literature.

Shanda:

I had once heard Andrew Pudewa was speaking and he talked about just how in children's literature, when they can see evil and they can see good, it helps them to learn to differentiate between it. It's kind of like gaining wisdom and being able to identify what is right and what is wrong, and obviously the characters are morally complex, but they're able to see what is right through these stories and are then able to, hopefully, when they're applying it to their own life and they come to a situation that may be similar or something happens and they're like okay, I can choose one of these paths, because I've seen this in stories and I want to choose to do what is right.

SD Smith:

That's like the romance of goodness. I think that's a big thing. That's missing, too, from a lot of literature. Simone Weil has this wonderful quotation, which I can never get exactly right, but basically says that imaginary evil is like fun and glorious and exciting and everything, and imaginary good is boring and but real evil is so bad so hard, absolutely depressing, and it's just and real good is life-giving and new and precious and so it's the part of what I feel like my mission is.

SD Smith:

I want to sort of introduce the sort of the romance, the adventure of, of goodness, of beauty, truth, of reality, and and like say no, no, the, when the people that say that the, the, what god says is a lie, or that it's a, that it's a shackle, that it's a chains or something, no, it's, it's a key, it's not, it's not a cage, and that's a part of my heart is like to sort of that to be and and I don't do that, and like I'm going to teach, going to teach the kids. I won't know Telling the truth is right and telling lies. So if I write a story where someone tells a lie and then they get in trouble and bad things, I don't want to reduce, I want to tell real, you know, adventurous stories, not just moralistic tracks. You know, I want, I want to have adventure, I want to respect the craft of, but I want to respect the craft of, but I want to tell the truth the whole time. I don't I never, want to lie.

SD Smith:

I must not tell lies and and and. So, yeah, if you walk away, I hope my prayer is. And when the Lord's answered this prayer by the testimony of many, many people, and I just give him glory, for that is that people walk away. Kids walk away from reading Green Ember, from that world, and they are changed in good ways, yeah, and they have an encounter with reality with a capital R and it may not. There's not, you know, someone doesn't get saved and someone doesn't start. Oh, now I'll go to church.

SD Smith:

I'll read my Bible that doesn't generally work. But they will be changed and they'll have an encounter with truth, with beauty and goodness. I pray, and God's answered that prayer and I give. Him. Glory for that.

Shanda:

Yeah, I know that before starting this podcast you had mentioned that you've kind of been wrestling with this topic of advocate versus accuser and I want to let you kind of talk on that.

Shanda:

But there was a quote in one of your books that I wanted to read that I think kind of ties into what we've been talking about in that topic. I'm going to read it for a second. It says all of life is a battle against fear. We fight it on one front and it sneaks around to our flank. He paused, looked kindly at her yes, father, I understand. And he said I regret many things I have done, but most of all I regret those moments when I said to fear you are my master. And I just was like that is so good, because so often kids deal with these fears and they don't know how to conquer them.

Shanda:

And as I was listening to you talk, I thought you are being an advocate for children through your writing and helping point them towards Christ. And so I would love to hear just kind of your thoughts on this being an advocate versus being an accuser, because obviously our advocate is Christ and the accuser is the devil, and so often, like we know, we're talking about this tugging war between good and evil, and we have this accuser who is always whispering lies into our ear, and God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. Not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. And so we need to learn to be discerning between what voice are we listening to? Is it our advocate or is it our accuser? And what role are we, as parents, playing into our children's life?

SD Smith:

Yeah Well, and I'll just say that you quoted from the Green ember that part is. That's not because I'm so smart I want to teach people this. It's because that's my problem. Like that's me. I have said that I've said yes to fear and I've given in. That's part of the internal struggle of one of the main characters. Heather, which I really relate to, is someone who's anxious, someone who struggles with that, and so that's a real. That's not something that's like, oh, that's used to be back before.

Shanda:

I was a super Christian. I'm growing, I'm growing in grace.

SD Smith:

God's giving me a lot of blessings, a lot of victory, but it's something I struggle with and so to say I want to and yeah. So that's really a core idea of the of the green ember series. Is this sort of like bravery? And it's not so much, and that's not as, as everybody knows, it's not the absence of fear, it's, it's actually required for the presence of fear is required.

SD Smith:

That's, it's so. It's not so much. If you do all the right things, you will not be afraid, or it's when I'm, I will trust in you, and it's, it's, it's so. It's not the sort of the absence of challenges or the absence of temptation or even the absence of weakness. It's not the absence of will I ever ever get sick and die? You will, like, you will die, you will weaken and die, unless it happens really quick. Like so there's this, this.

SD Smith:

I don't like the sort of the prosperity heresy of like everything, if you just do the right things, everything will work out. I want to deal with the reality of suffering and so much of the scriptures about suffering and and how to equip that. And I think that the books have really resonated with people who have, you know, going through childhood cancer or loss or this kind of thing, because they deal with suffering in an honest way and, I hope, a biblical way. And, yeah, I think the advocate thing. I just think that so many people who care a lot about the truth have a disposition of being a critic, which can be very closely related to being an accuser.

SD Smith:

And so the the view I think about christ, uh, healing the man with the withered hand. And you know he's. He, there's a man with a withered hand, it's the sabbath, and in front of the synagogue and he and, and he's looking in the pharisees. What are they doing? They are looking at him to see how they can accuse him. That's, that's. That's a big deal doing. Diabolus, the devil, that is the, what his name is, it is the accuser, one who throws stones. That's his thing.

SD Smith:

So these religious leaders are sitting around watching him. And what are they watching him? To see if he will heal a guy with a withered hand In an agrarian culture. This is a man who is, you know, it's not like he can get a tech job or something like this. This is how you work. You tech job or something like this is this is how you work, you know. So you're talking about the livelihood, you're talking about the life of this man, his family, whatever you know.

SD Smith:

And there's their focus is let me see if he does, let me see if he breaks this rule. And so they're, they're immediate. That's their intention. So, and and and Jesus appeals to them. You know, is it right on the Sabbath to do good or to do bad. Is it do good or to do bad? Like is it? Is it better to do death or life? On this app, he's kind of like, and they, and their answer is not, oh, their answer is silence, because all they're doing is watching him. Yeah, and I just think, like, if that and he heals the man, it's beautiful, it's a wonderful story. I love it so much. Stretch out your hand and he stretches out this hand and it's just and it's hit a hole again and they walk, walk away the religious leaders. They walk away and plan to kill him. That is like they walk away and plan to kill him.

Shanda:

That's their disposition.

SD Smith:

So I just think if and I'm not trying to apply that to everything in life, but I think if my disposition is basically like I'm looking for trouble everywhere, I'm looking for problems, are you doing that a little bit wrong? And I think that is natural to me. I think it's natural to a lot of people who are thoughtful or like I've had to wrestle with, like is this sinful?

SD Smith:

Is this not, and I'm trying to think through the worldview and I'm trying to not just let everything come to me. So then I think the overcorrection on that side from discernment is this disposition of criticism, this disposition of accusation, and I think of it as it's really important to have a. I mean, andy Crouch has this thing about relationships to culture and he talks about postures and gestures, and some things might be a good posture and not, or a good gesture, not a good posture, and that's how I think about criticism. Like I think, if obviously Paul does it, he says you know, I wish that you'd be accursed and cut off, which is a really awesome double entendre with the group he's talking to about the circumcision. He's very heavily hitting them with some very tough language, and so does Jesus, the brood of vipers and this kind of stuff.

SD Smith:

So that is true, you need to be firm in the truth at times, for sure, but if that's all my life is about, then that's I. That's so it's a good gesture and I think it's a crummy posture to just be a critic all the time and what I, the posture I want to have is.

SD Smith:

I want to be a creator or a curator. I want to share, I want to give, I want to make things. I want to get in the arena and fight and try to do something about. You know, cause it's so simple, just to say I mean, we've gotten some feedback honestly about the video game and it's you know, we're doing a video game and we're doing a book together and it's a different kind of video game. It's radically hospitable to kids. It doesn't have this sort of endless addiction cycle to have ads to, you know, to level up. It doesn't have like chat features you know to to to level up. It doesn't have like chat features. We made it with so much intention, going against the way you make money to, to try to make something really hospitable to kids. So we're like fighting in this space and I understand people say, oh, we don't do video games. I understand that. I respect that. We don't do it that much in our home either. There are lots of kids who that could be the only gateway for them.

Shanda:

We've had some feedback about.

SD Smith:

well, you know, sort of like poking, like why would you do this? We're trying, you're getting our kids and and and I just like think, like we're trying to make something.

Shanda:

We're we're trying to do something. We're in. We're in the fight.

SD Smith:

So I just like there's. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and say, oh, you should have thrown the ball, you should have you should have you know you should have taken that strike instead of trying to swing, like you know, while you're eating your popcorn. And you know it just like get in the game, or you know it's hard. It's hard in the game and you're going to make mistakes.

SD Smith:

And if, if, if. Everybody's disposition is just always like well, where were the discernment people? Where are the truth checkers? We'll make sure everything's right and tidy, like it's not always going to be perfect. You know, even the Lord was like they're not against us, they're for us, and like people are weird doing stuff. Or even Paul said I'm rejoicing that they're preaching, even though it's like they're doing it for selfish gain, like there's a little bit of a, and sometimes he's like you know send them to hell or I get that.

SD Smith:

I get there's a line, but anyway, that's that's sort of my think, of my thought about like, I want to be someone who's curating good things that's what you guys are doing so well and I want to be someone who's creating good things, and so that's my heart, and I'm not saying that as, like you, stupid people or critics. That's my natural. I need to fight that myself.

Shanda:

I fully understand what you are saying, because often, as a parent, I think about that. Am I just being nitpicky with my children and just pointing out every little thing? Or am I truly being an advocate for them and pointing them towards Christ? Because so often, like you said, I can be the one who's kind of nitpicking and it comes from a heart of genuinely wanting them to do right. But is it truly helpful for them to constantly feel this pecking and just this?

James:

Yeah, are you smothering them? Is it suffocating and all these things, yeah, so I appreciate you sharing all of that.

James:

Yeah, and I don't take anything that you just said as judgy or you know. Ah, you know boo, you know it's. You are actually being an advocate for those people and for their children and it's just such a great reminder because we absolutely I mean that whole Everything you just said speaks so much to me because I can be an intense person and I'm cut out of a very driven cloth and I'm not using that as an excuse, it's just an each at bat and you know, does you know you shouldn't have said that or whatever. And it's like you know, just like I said, I know that can be suffocating and we truly are our children's advocates and need to be and, like I said, it's just a great reminder and I know that.

James:

You know Jesus is our intercessor, so we can always use our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ as an example, the perfect example of really how we should be as spouses as well. I mean it's not just a parenting thing. I need to be your advocate and we all need to work together. I mean, obviously sharpens iron and you know we can improve and it's not like you said earlier, it's not that we don't try to improve and that we don't be critical at times, in the right way and at the right times. But if you're only that to your children and to your spouse and to those around you, you get on the crazy cycle pretty fast rather than be on the energizing cycle, it's just.

Shanda:

I mean. Proverbs talks a lot about not having a critical spirit and that's essentially what you're becoming when you're just constantly nitpicking and it's get that log out of your own eye before you look at the speck in your brothers.

SD Smith:

Well, you have these, all these gifts. You know, james, I just think about you, your capacity to sort of both of you guys to strive for excellence. So that means you're going to have high standards and that high standards are a gift, and so I feel the same way. Like you know, I'm going the house and I don't notice the 10 or 15 great things it's like oh, my son didn't take out.

SD Smith:

Take out the trash and the shoes are right here and so it's. It is so natural and so easy and I and I'm the same way, it's just, and so I don't think it and I think it's. It is the flip side of those strengths, you know we have these. You might have a gentle, empathetic spirit that is very kind and thoughtful and maybe artistic and that kind of thing. On the flip side of that, you might struggle with anxiety or navel gazing, that kind of thing.

SD Smith:

If you're a driven, strong, excellent sort of get-after and type A kind of thing, then you're going to have the weaknesses on that side of it and it's just like bearing with each other and that God calls us that we have these. That's why I love the church. I love the church. There's so many. This, the church that there's so many. This is why my message to so many artists I hate that the artists feel alienated from the church and the church feels alienated from the arts. I just hate that so much because I think we need each other so much, like the church needs those absolutely weird, creative, gifted kind of people in that way and those people desperately need the reality of the church.

SD Smith:

They need christianity they need jesus they need the scriptures, and so we, you know, I'll say I need it, and the church needs me and needs to hear me. So it's just like we need each other, with those different strengths and weaknesses.

James:

It's the body, the body of Christ. Yes, I was literally thinking the body of Christ, as you were talking.

Shanda:

Like are we an arm or are we a leg?

James:

Yeah, yeah.

Shanda:

No.

Shanda:

I love that. I mean, you mentioned your Kickstarter, so we're going to give you a little bit of time to maybe kind of put a plug in for that, because I know you're coming out with a Helmer book and I was telling a friend about it last night and she you're going to probably laugh at this she said they're getting new chickens here soon and their son wants to name one of their hens Helmer. She's like you can't name a girl Helmer and he is like adamant that he is naming this hen Helmer because that is his favorite character. So I know that everyone is very excited about this upcoming book. So if you could tell us just a little bit more, what is it? It's Helmer in the Dragon Tomb. Is that what the title of this book is?

SD Smith:

Yeah, yes, that's the new book and Helmer, he's a beloved character. He's sort of the old mentor, the old crusty mentor to our young hero in the green Ember and he becomes a really important character as the series goes on and a really beloved character and it's kind of the softening of his heart. He's kind of a replacement dad in a sense. He's like you know, god is a father to the fatherless and he's a little bit. There's a little bit, there's a little bit of that going on. I think that happens in a lot of great stories. Yeah, there's a lot of great stories are about fatherhood and and and I don't know.

SD Smith:

I think that's really deep in in in the core sort of of the universe for some reason can't figure out, why Just do some research on that. But so so he's that kind of a character and he he's a really beloved character and he embodies a lot of like heroic sacrifice and that kind of thing, but people don't want to let him go and he's uh, so this is his origin story.

SD Smith:

So this is going back to when he was sort of the young uh person being mentored. He's a farmer and he must become a fighter because of what happens, and that's what this story is about. It's what the book is about and it's what the the game is as well, and so, yeah, I'm super. People love helmer and he's the most popular character probably, and I've had heard so many pets named after helmer.

SD Smith:

We've had, there's lots of character, green ember, characters named for, you know, lots of chickens, lots of dogs lots of uh any children, any children.

James:

Yeah, yeah, not not helmer not helmer, but but I know of two children that have been named after characters in the book Super cool, that's so cool.

Shanda:

Yeah, I will definitely put like a link in the show notes for your Kickstarter. So if people are interested in going and checking that out and supporting this new venture with the video game. I know I was looking at the video game and it looks like it is so well done and I was showing it to our son and he's really excited about it and I just love that it's ad free and that you're not trying to, you know, get money out of kids to like level up and all of that.

Shanda:

And I just thought this is just good, wholesome video gaming. Because I loved games as a kid, like I played video games, um, but video games nowadays are not like what they used to be and I just felt like that was just good, wholesome fun play as a kid. But anymore, like some of the games I see, and I'm like it's just, it's all about the money, you know, um, so I basically slot machines now yeah they really do I mean it's, it's big companies that have spent, and they spend sure that's what we're

SD Smith:

against. That's what's a little bit frustrating to hear. Some of the criticism is like why are you doing? Like, do you understand the sort of the stakes culturally? Like this is a, this is a cultural artifact, that. That I mean in many ways Zach, or illustrator, who works with us. He's an incredible guy but he was saying, like the way opera sort of brings up, you know you have to have a story and narrative, you have music, you have set design, costume you have a bunch.

SD Smith:

You have this orchestra here. You have, like it's, a bunch of different disciplines together. I mean video games are a little bit. I mean they're like that there's narrative, there's music there's incredible art there's, there's this, there's sort of this collision of different sort of artistic fields that God has given us, and you enter into the narrative in this really interesting way. So yeah, it's the way that they make the games now and they spend billions of dollars literally like to market these games because they know they are like slot machines.

SD Smith:

So we have to, we're trying to sort of compete, but we can't really compete with that. What we need is families, because that's who we want to serve, who we're, that's who we want to serve. And so we've just got to kind of go around that whole apparatus of advertising, because we got to go straight to, straight to moms and dads.

Shanda:

Yeah, well, you definitely have us as an advocate here because, uh, like I said, our family, I mean, we do video games sometimes and when we saw that, I was like this is definitely what I would love for my kids to play.

James:

yeah, yeah, and I love, you know, instead of trying to, you know, win the game or beat them, meaning the video game creators at their own game. You like broke the rules and you're like no, I'm going to go old school and I think it's great.

SD Smith:

It is. It's kind of a I appreciate you saying that, because it does feel a little bit like a, like an insurrection or like guerrilla warfare, because we, we can't I mean they really do spend.

SD Smith:

So and you probably see, it on any kind of you just almost can't avoid yeah the ads for these games and they have, they employ the biggest celebrities, they have so much invested in it and we just can't that, we can't do that and we don't want to do that. So so, yeah, it's. It means a lot to have people sort of understand that, the heart that we've poured into these books for 10 years like a radical, generous hospitality and love and a commitment to serving families, to be allies in imagination that we're bringing all that energy and all that intentionality into this game and it's not something that we're just like oh, just play this game all your life.

SD Smith:

No, that's nothing.

James:

We want reading.

SD Smith:

We want it to be a gateway to reading back and forth. We want kids to go outside and play. We want you know we're not trying to we're seeing the children as human beings made in the image of God. And how do we love and serve them? And it's it's really appreciate you guys seeing that understanding and being advocates for us. It just means the world to me.

James:

Yeah, absolutely, and if you don't mind not to sound silly but like, could you explain exactly what you know, what? So there's a book and a game and kind of just assume that I know nothing about it and maybe to those listeners out there that literally don't know anything about it, do you mind explaining that kind of interface a little bit? Thank you.

SD Smith:

That's such a great question. I appreciate that because I've been in it so deep that I can't Right. Yeah, it's it's a really cool um like sort of uh, uh. It's I don't know if I don't know if anybody's ever done this before it's. It is literally the we have a new novel, sort of a new novel featuring a character who's really popular, a anticipated novel, and and so that novel will be released, but that novel has a video gamization so you can literally just play the story from that novel in this video game and you can go back and forth and you can sort of enter into it at the same time.

SD Smith:

So it's, you know, whereas a movie would come out and then, oh, we'll make a video game, you know, a few months later or a year later, or something, or even a big book property. We're doing it at the same time. So I think of it as this sort of like really neat, hospitable sort of way to kids always play the green ember. So they always go back in the, in the backyard and play with sticks and that kind of thing and they'll draw and they'll create in that world. And we think of this as a new way to play the green ember.

SD Smith:

And and yeah, just like a book, it has a beginning, a middle and an end. It it's probably three to six hours total time and you can, of course, go back and, just like you'd go back and read a book, you could go back and play it again and again and probably change the difficulty, settings and that kind of thing. But it is its own story. It's kind of maybe comparable to the old Mario game where you have like there's a quest and you're trying to it's it's not, you can't go anywhere.

SD Smith:

Yeah, so it's got it's, it's, it's got that. Yeah, it's, it's a story game the beginning, middle and the end and it's really tied to this and it's and people for a long time wanted us to do like a movie or tv show and we've had some opportunities with that. We're kind of waiting for the right, right timing, right partnerships on that, but this is a bit of a step in that direction, kind of like a little bit of an opportunity to sort of for the green ember to jump off the page in an exciting way and and we're, uh, that's, I really want it to, I want to work it's you know, you can imagine the you know, james, as an entrepreneur.

Shanda:

Like the finances are different for a game than they are for a book, so that's part of like we're fighting, we, we it's a.

SD Smith:

It's a different prospect and, yeah, a little bit hard for people understand. So I appreciate you asking that clarifying question. We tied them together in the Kickstarter. They're tied together. Some people say, well, you just want the book. I understand that. We want them to be together. It's sort of like, so you can sort of experience this in this new way.

Shanda:

Where are you at like in your Kickstarter funding? Are you tracking well as far as like getting it fully funded so far? Yeah, are you?

SD Smith:

tracking. Well, as far as, like, getting it fully funded so far, yeah, I think there's always. You know, you probably know this if you're in business. There are kind of like two stories. Both of them are kind of true. There is a sense in which it's going really, really well. I mean, we're a few days in and we're reaching our. We're getting closer to reaching our goal. We're over halfway to our goal. The goal is an initial goal, though you know that's a public goal.

SD Smith:

It means something. We're trying to reach 200,000, and that would be good if we got there. We really need to get there for the project's sake, but we're way more ambitious than that and it's just like you've got to deal with the reality of it. It's a tough. I think it's tough for people. This is why this is so helpful to talk about it, because I think it is sometimes hard for people to understand a book. I actually think if we just offered the book, we'd be sort of pretty far ahead of where we are now.

SD Smith:

It complicates it. It makes people think can I think through this? What does that mean and and how do I play it and stuff. So it it's, uh, it is challenging in a way. But but I would just say we're, we're really ambitious and we want to. We want to we, because we're so committed to these kids and want to want this to be a big way. I mean, the game won't work, um, if we don't, you know, if we don't like crank it up and we don't do well with it, we won't be able to keep doing it. So we're, we're fighting pretty hard for for it. I mean, that's part of the reason why we tied it to this really popular yeah character and release.

SD Smith:

So, yeah, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a battle.

James:

But we're up, yeah, but it's, it's a, it's a battle worth fighting and I really appreciate your transparency with this because, like, nothing happens for free, right, you know, and I I love capitalism and I I like to when people are willing to talk about it.

James:

I think it's healthy, I think it's helpful because, you know, I don't know, like there's just so many different sides to like we talked about earlier. I mean, you're an author, but that's just one. You know, unfortunately, you know, maybe even a small part at times of your business. Unfortunately, you know, maybe even a small part at times of your business and the business side, I mean, without feeding your family and and making sure those boxes are checked, there is no green number, there is no SD Smith and things like that. So I think it's great and I I hope you 10 exit and think big and and do your thing and, you know, exceed all those those aspirations, because I mean, like all those aspirations, because I mean, like we said throughout this podcast, I mean the world needs this story and the world needs, you know, people that are advocates for the gospel, for children, for, just, you know, a healthy, successful life, and so I think it's awesome. So you have a big fan here.

SD Smith:

Thank you, james. That means the world to me. Honestly, that's like we don't, I don't. We do a lot of. I do a lot of interviews and stuff, and that's not normally a component that comes out but it's totally real. It's, it's, it's. Part of it is that you think you're going to get a a cool game. That's really. Yeah, it's not. I will agree with you. It's not free to do that. It's not free in time or energy or money or anything.

James:

It's a big, big amount. Yeah, the lack of ads comes at a cost to the end user and to you. I mean, you're the one taking the risk on this. So, like I said, I think it's awesome.

Shanda:

And even you having to volunteer your time for this podcast just so that you can have an opportunity to talk about it, and stuff, too, like there's. There's so many factors that go into promoting this.

James:

Well, he's getting 3 million sales. That's going to help a lot. I mean, that will do it all.

SD Smith:

That'll go a long way.

SD Smith:

Actually, this is what I need to do is to be able to explain and thank you so much for that clarifying question and for being able to to, just for understanding and for helping, because this is what we need to do, is we need to help sort of the audience, just to understand and just to read them. I think there's a lot of people out there that are like, yeah, I want to get behind, I want to do media in this new because it's to complain about, oh, media is so bad or whatever. But we're trying, we're doing something.

SD Smith:

And there's a lot of people that are just like yeah, I'm on board with that, but it's just hard to reach them because you've got to pay a trillion dollars to just get their attention now, it's so hard. So, so it just this helps so much this. You guys have been such great allies and I'm so grateful for that.

Shanda:

Well, we really appreciate you taking time out of your day to do this, so could you definitely let our listeners know where they can connect with you, like what are your social media, your website?

SD Smith:

It's all at sdsmithcom. So just S D D for Dale. Sdsmithcom is pretty and if you want to go to Kickstarter and and you know, type in green Ember, I think you could find our new project. That's probably the most pressing thing, but I think you can find everything at sdsmithcom.

Shanda:

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for this time. I guess we'll wrap it up because we're kind of getting a little long here, so until next time, we want to encourage you to seek God, love your spouse, hug your kids and stay devoted. Thank you for tuning in to this Devoted Life podcast. Hug your kids and stay devoted. The show and we'd love to hear from you. Be sure to hit subscribe so you never miss an episode. To learn more about how to live a life devoted to God and family, head over to thisdevotedlifecom. You can also follow me, Shanda, on Instagram at devoted underscore motherhood. Thank you again for listening and we look forward to seeing you next time on this Devoted Life podcast.